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	<title>Comments on: What Makes a Game: Part II - The Plot</title>
	<link>http://girlsdontgame.com/2008/05/29/what-makes-a-game-part-ii-the-plot/</link>
	<description>Everyone knows girls don't play video games.</description>
	<pubDate>Sat, 22 Nov 2008 05:31:30 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Ephidrina</title>
		<link>http://girlsdontgame.com/2008/05/29/what-makes-a-game-part-ii-the-plot/#comment-2778</link>
		<author>Ephidrina</author>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 May 2008 01:39:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://girlsdontgame.com/2008/05/29/what-makes-a-game-part-ii-the-plot/#comment-2778</guid>
					<description>Story isn't something that a game has to have as you alluded to. But if the game wants to act like it has a story, it better be a good one.  A game like Tetris for example doesn't act like it has a story.  A game like Portal on the other hand somewhat does and it delivers.  A lot of old-timers say "Whatever happened to just trying to get a hi-score" and I agree with them to a certain point.  

Games are supposed to be fun, and the hi-score element can be tons of fun still.  But you can also have your hi-score and much more with today's games so it comes down to a "What's the excuse?" type of ultimatum some gamers give developers.

As for best story, there's quite a few out there that will be named so I'll just throw out a game that's semi recent and goes overlooked.  Eternal Darkness.  I really had a lot of fun with that game and the way the story was presented was very interesting.  Just a whole heritage uncovered by the player and not just told was a blast to play and learn.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Story isn&#8217;t something that a game has to have as you alluded to. But if the game wants to act like it has a story, it better be a good one.  A game like Tetris for example doesn&#8217;t act like it has a story.  A game like Portal on the other hand somewhat does and it delivers.  A lot of old-timers say &#8220;Whatever happened to just trying to get a hi-score&#8221; and I agree with them to a certain point.  </p>
<p>Games are supposed to be fun, and the hi-score element can be tons of fun still.  But you can also have your hi-score and much more with today&#8217;s games so it comes down to a &#8220;What&#8217;s the excuse?&#8221; type of ultimatum some gamers give developers.</p>
<p>As for best story, there&#8217;s quite a few out there that will be named so I&#8217;ll just throw out a game that&#8217;s semi recent and goes overlooked.  Eternal Darkness.  I really had a lot of fun with that game and the way the story was presented was very interesting.  Just a whole heritage uncovered by the player and not just told was a blast to play and learn.</p>
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		<title>By: William</title>
		<link>http://girlsdontgame.com/2008/05/29/what-makes-a-game-part-ii-the-plot/#comment-2781</link>
		<author>William</author>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 May 2008 05:21:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://girlsdontgame.com/2008/05/29/what-makes-a-game-part-ii-the-plot/#comment-2781</guid>
					<description>I've got to give high marks to Chrono Trigger for its cast of characters.  Every character in your party (Chrono excepted) had a personality, and (more importantly) a sub-plot which related meaningfully to the the main plot at some point.  Some character's plots related more than others, but everyone had a clearly defined stake in the plot, and quite a bit of backstory, unlike it's ill-fated sequal.

For sheer complexity of story, the award would have to go to Xenogears.  The execution was awkward, even ham-fisted at times, but in terms of available information to people willing to do the digging, I haven't played another game that comes close.

And for sheer quality of dialogue, well, nothing comes close to Tim Schaefer.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve got to give high marks to Chrono Trigger for its cast of characters.  Every character in your party (Chrono excepted) had a personality, and (more importantly) a sub-plot which related meaningfully to the the main plot at some point.  Some character&#8217;s plots related more than others, but everyone had a clearly defined stake in the plot, and quite a bit of backstory, unlike it&#8217;s ill-fated sequal.</p>
<p>For sheer complexity of story, the award would have to go to Xenogears.  The execution was awkward, even ham-fisted at times, but in terms of available information to people willing to do the digging, I haven&#8217;t played another game that comes close.</p>
<p>And for sheer quality of dialogue, well, nothing comes close to Tim Schaefer.</p>
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		<title>By: Jon</title>
		<link>http://girlsdontgame.com/2008/05/29/what-makes-a-game-part-ii-the-plot/#comment-2787</link>
		<author>Jon</author>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 May 2008 10:58:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://girlsdontgame.com/2008/05/29/what-makes-a-game-part-ii-the-plot/#comment-2787</guid>
					<description>Half Life for me has always been a game with a great story, not only is it truely epic in scale but you also don't have it forced on you with lengthy cutscenes or dialog, you just get to play the game. If you want to take the time to explore then sure, you'll be rewarded with a pretty interesting back story to boot.

However cutscenes can be enjoyable to watch if done right. Lengthy cutscenes at the beginning of a game are fine by me. They act almost as a trailer for the main game, showing me enemies or locations that I get to fight in. Likewise, cutscenes at the end of a game are great, I much prefer it to thirty seconds of characters setting up for a nice sequel (see Rainbow Six Vegas, GTA4). What annoys me is cutscenes that pop up at the beginning of a game but after you've gained control of the protagonist. I want to explore his abilities and start getting into the game, not listen to lengthy codec conversations about Dead Cell (MGS I'm looking at you).

Anyhow, great article, keep up the good work.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Half Life for me has always been a game with a great story, not only is it truely epic in scale but you also don&#8217;t have it forced on you with lengthy cutscenes or dialog, you just get to play the game. If you want to take the time to explore then sure, you&#8217;ll be rewarded with a pretty interesting back story to boot.</p>
<p>However cutscenes can be enjoyable to watch if done right. Lengthy cutscenes at the beginning of a game are fine by me. They act almost as a trailer for the main game, showing me enemies or locations that I get to fight in. Likewise, cutscenes at the end of a game are great, I much prefer it to thirty seconds of characters setting up for a nice sequel (see Rainbow Six Vegas, GTA4). What annoys me is cutscenes that pop up at the beginning of a game but after you&#8217;ve gained control of the protagonist. I want to explore his abilities and start getting into the game, not listen to lengthy codec conversations about Dead Cell (MGS I&#8217;m looking at you).</p>
<p>Anyhow, great article, keep up the good work.</p>
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		<title>By: Suzie</title>
		<link>http://girlsdontgame.com/2008/05/29/what-makes-a-game-part-ii-the-plot/#comment-2799</link>
		<author>Suzie</author>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 May 2008 16:51:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://girlsdontgame.com/2008/05/29/what-makes-a-game-part-ii-the-plot/#comment-2799</guid>
					<description>@Ephidrina - Agreed. There's nothing wrong with a hi-score, or a fun multiplayer frag-fest for that matter. I think if a game tries to have a story though, it should try and pull it off well.

@William - Chrono Trigger was a very good game in terms of the characters. I haven't played Xenogears though, so I can't comment on that. 

@Jon - Yes Half-Life rocks! I hate cut scenes, I don't mind an occasional one to advance the plot, but overall I would much rather have a story integrated with gameplay, rather than switch between them. I can't even begin to imagine sitting through the 90 minute cut scenes in MGS4... I mean, I might as well be watching a movie!

Thanks for the compliment :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Ephidrina - Agreed. There&#8217;s nothing wrong with a hi-score, or a fun multiplayer frag-fest for that matter. I think if a game tries to have a story though, it should try and pull it off well.</p>
<p>@William - Chrono Trigger was a very good game in terms of the characters. I haven&#8217;t played Xenogears though, so I can&#8217;t comment on that. </p>
<p>@Jon - Yes Half-Life rocks! I hate cut scenes, I don&#8217;t mind an occasional one to advance the plot, but overall I would much rather have a story integrated with gameplay, rather than switch between them. I can&#8217;t even begin to imagine sitting through the 90 minute cut scenes in MGS4&#8230; I mean, I might as well be watching a movie!</p>
<p>Thanks for the compliment <img src='http://girlsdontgame.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /></p>
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		<title>By: Floppy</title>
		<link>http://girlsdontgame.com/2008/05/29/what-makes-a-game-part-ii-the-plot/#comment-2801</link>
		<author>Floppy</author>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 May 2008 17:54:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://girlsdontgame.com/2008/05/29/what-makes-a-game-part-ii-the-plot/#comment-2801</guid>
					<description>Knights of the old republic. Best story, plot and dialogue I've ever seen in a game. I haven't played many roleplaying games though, but this is some of the best there is. I recommend it if you havn't played it. although I'm sure many have, it was quite a popular game, best of the year i think.  And the plot twist ( main twist, there was many) was really scary, became my best game moment ever as well!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Knights of the old republic. Best story, plot and dialogue I&#8217;ve ever seen in a game. I haven&#8217;t played many roleplaying games though, but this is some of the best there is. I recommend it if you havn&#8217;t played it. although I&#8217;m sure many have, it was quite a popular game, best of the year i think.  And the plot twist ( main twist, there was many) was really scary, became my best game moment ever as well!</p>
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		<title>By: Monique</title>
		<link>http://girlsdontgame.com/2008/05/29/what-makes-a-game-part-ii-the-plot/#comment-2826</link>
		<author>Monique</author>
		<pubDate>Sat, 31 May 2008 00:53:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://girlsdontgame.com/2008/05/29/what-makes-a-game-part-ii-the-plot/#comment-2826</guid>
					<description>One of my favorite plots that virtually no one talks about is Asheron's Call. That MMORPG had a great attempt at a plot and I really admired them for trying. The Olthoi, Asherson opening a portal--good stuff!

As usual, great addition to a wonderful series Suz.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One of my favorite plots that virtually no one talks about is Asheron&#8217;s Call. That MMORPG had a great attempt at a plot and I really admired them for trying. The Olthoi, Asherson opening a portal&#8211;good stuff!</p>
<p>As usual, great addition to a wonderful series Suz.</p>
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		<title>By: Demosthenes</title>
		<link>http://girlsdontgame.com/2008/05/29/what-makes-a-game-part-ii-the-plot/#comment-2834</link>
		<author>Demosthenes</author>
		<pubDate>Sat, 31 May 2008 04:25:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://girlsdontgame.com/2008/05/29/what-makes-a-game-part-ii-the-plot/#comment-2834</guid>
					<description>I always loved the RPG Golden Sun. It had a fantastic story and great gameplay. It was like a mixture between Final Fantasy and Zelda. They had a great battle system, but then had tons of great dungeons with puzzles and such.

But the best part was its freaking epic storyline. So many plots, sub-plots and twists, the game played out like a movie.

It also took like 30 hours to beat which for a GBA game is amazing to me. Can't wait till the third one comes out!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I always loved the RPG Golden Sun. It had a fantastic story and great gameplay. It was like a mixture between Final Fantasy and Zelda. They had a great battle system, but then had tons of great dungeons with puzzles and such.</p>
<p>But the best part was its freaking epic storyline. So many plots, sub-plots and twists, the game played out like a movie.</p>
<p>It also took like 30 hours to beat which for a GBA game is amazing to me. Can&#8217;t wait till the third one comes out!</p>
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		<title>By: Demosthenes</title>
		<link>http://girlsdontgame.com/2008/05/29/what-makes-a-game-part-ii-the-plot/#comment-2835</link>
		<author>Demosthenes</author>
		<pubDate>Sat, 31 May 2008 04:26:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://girlsdontgame.com/2008/05/29/what-makes-a-game-part-ii-the-plot/#comment-2835</guid>
					<description>Also,  everyones text seems a tad bold</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Also,  everyones text seems a tad bold</p>
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		<title>By: Shunal</title>
		<link>http://girlsdontgame.com/2008/05/29/what-makes-a-game-part-ii-the-plot/#comment-2852</link>
		<author>Shunal</author>
		<pubDate>Sat, 31 May 2008 11:53:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://girlsdontgame.com/2008/05/29/what-makes-a-game-part-ii-the-plot/#comment-2852</guid>
					<description>Wow. I'm surprised noone mentioned Planescape: Torment. That has to be one of the best stories ever written in any game. Then there's the underrated and underappreciated Beyond Good &#38; Evil. There's also the silent story of Shadow of the Colossus.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wow. I&#8217;m surprised noone mentioned Planescape: Torment. That has to be one of the best stories ever written in any game. Then there&#8217;s the underrated and underappreciated Beyond Good &amp; Evil. There&#8217;s also the silent story of Shadow of the Colossus.</p>
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		<title>By: RiotMonster</title>
		<link>http://girlsdontgame.com/2008/05/29/what-makes-a-game-part-ii-the-plot/#comment-2954</link>
		<author>RiotMonster</author>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Jun 2008 18:52:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://girlsdontgame.com/2008/05/29/what-makes-a-game-part-ii-the-plot/#comment-2954</guid>
					<description>Worst story? Sonic and the Secret Rings &#62;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Worst story? Sonic and the Secret Rings &gt;</p>
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		<title>By: Alison E</title>
		<link>http://girlsdontgame.com/2008/05/29/what-makes-a-game-part-ii-the-plot/#comment-2964</link>
		<author>Alison E</author>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Jun 2008 20:30:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://girlsdontgame.com/2008/05/29/what-makes-a-game-part-ii-the-plot/#comment-2964</guid>
					<description>Xenogears was the game that proved for me that if the characters annoy me, even a really good story can't make me finish it. I can never get past how WHINY the protagonists of pretty much every Xeno- game is, and always end up hating them. HATED Fei and Elly, HATED Shion. 

I don't remember what made me so mad about Fei, but I remember I couldn't deal with Shion anymore after the cutscene where she freaks out about the thunder and lightning, and all I could think was, "... you're a scientist. You're supposed to be educated and grown up, enough so to have engineered Kosmos. And yet, Rikku from Final Fantasy Ten handles being freaked out by thunderstorms better than you do. I am officially to embarrassed to assume control of you anymore."

Not even Kosmos' totally awesome uterus cannon (you know that's what it looks like) could bring me back.

I agree with Shunal that Shadow of the Colossus has an amazing silent story, and that's what I meant in the other thread by having enough of a good story that I can tell myself a good one. I feel that game was a work of art in more ways than one. I loved the feeling I got about halfway through the game, when I really started to look at the character and think that perhaps I was in the process of allowing said character to make incredibly poor life choices. Great game.

I think my favorite story I've played through is Asellus' in SaGa Frontier (although I totally understand that Utena fans will be unable to get past the fairly blatant ripoff), and my least favorite would be Super Mario 2. I have a deepseated childhood loathing for anything to which the ending is "It was only a dream!" Cop out on Aisle 2, Cop out on Aisle 2.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Xenogears was the game that proved for me that if the characters annoy me, even a really good story can&#8217;t make me finish it. I can never get past how WHINY the protagonists of pretty much every Xeno- game is, and always end up hating them. HATED Fei and Elly, HATED Shion. </p>
<p>I don&#8217;t remember what made me so mad about Fei, but I remember I couldn&#8217;t deal with Shion anymore after the cutscene where she freaks out about the thunder and lightning, and all I could think was, &#8220;&#8230; you&#8217;re a scientist. You&#8217;re supposed to be educated and grown up, enough so to have engineered Kosmos. And yet, Rikku from Final Fantasy Ten handles being freaked out by thunderstorms better than you do. I am officially to embarrassed to assume control of you anymore.&#8221;</p>
<p>Not even Kosmos&#8217; totally awesome uterus cannon (you know that&#8217;s what it looks like) could bring me back.</p>
<p>I agree with Shunal that Shadow of the Colossus has an amazing silent story, and that&#8217;s what I meant in the other thread by having enough of a good story that I can tell myself a good one. I feel that game was a work of art in more ways than one. I loved the feeling I got about halfway through the game, when I really started to look at the character and think that perhaps I was in the process of allowing said character to make incredibly poor life choices. Great game.</p>
<p>I think my favorite story I&#8217;ve played through is Asellus&#8217; in SaGa Frontier (although I totally understand that Utena fans will be unable to get past the fairly blatant ripoff), and my least favorite would be Super Mario 2. I have a deepseated childhood loathing for anything to which the ending is &#8220;It was only a dream!&#8221; Cop out on Aisle 2, Cop out on Aisle 2.</p>
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